SitePoint Podcast＃120：不要急于SitePoint！

编程知识更新时间:2023-04-03 19:14:19

Episode 120 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week regular panel members Patrick O’Keefe (@ifroggy), Brad Williams (@williamsba) and Stephan Segraves (@ssegraves) are joined by SitePoint community member Ralph Mason (@pageaffairs) who is one of the contributors to Web Voices Of The Community.

SitePoint Podcast的第120集现已发布！本周常规小组成员Patrick O'Keefe( @ifroggy )，Brad Williams( @williamsba )和Stephan Segraves( @ssegraves )加入了SitePoint社区成员Ralph Mason( @pageaffairs )，他是Web Voices Of The Web Voices的贡献者之一社区。

下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)

You can download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:

您可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。这是链接：

~~SitePoint Podcast #120: Don’t Rush To SitePoint!~~ (MP3, 52:24, 50.3MB)
~~SitePoint Podcast＃120：不要急于SitePoint！~~ (MP3，52:24，50.3MB)

剧集摘要 (Episode Summary)

Here are the topics covered in this episode:

以下是本集中介绍的主题：

Google Plus
Google Plus
The Selling Of MySpace
MySpace的销售
10 Ways To Improve your Programming Skills
提高编程技能的10种方法
1 in 5 using Chrome – The Latest Browser Trends
五分之一的人使用Chrome浏览器–最新的浏览器趋势

Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at http://delicious/sitepointpodcast/120.

浏览http://delicious/sitepointpodcast/120中显示的参考链接的完整列表。

主持人聚光灯 (Host Spotlights)

Brad: WordPress 3.2 is out!
布拉德： WordPress 3.2已经发布！
Patrick: We’ll Kill You – Music Video
帕特里克：我们会杀了你-音乐录影带
Stephan: All The Names – 9/11 Memorial
斯蒂芬：所有名字– 9/11纪念馆
Ralph: HTML Email Boilerplate
拉尔夫： HTML电子邮件样板

面试成绩单 (Interview Transcript)

Patrick: Hello again and welcome to another edition of the SitePoint Podcast. This is Patrick O’Keefe and I am filling in for our usual co-host, Louis Simoneau, who is hopefully having a good time right now somewhere other than in front of his computer. I am joined by my usual co-hosts, Brad Williams and Stephan Segraves, and we have a special guest host today, his name is Ralph Mason and he is one of the co-authors of SitePoint’s new community book, Thinking Web: Voices of the Community. The book was, as it’s aptly titled, each chapter in the book is written by a different member of the SitePoint Community, and it’s available for free from SitePoint. Ralph, welcome to the show.

帕特里克：您好，欢迎来到SitePoint播客的另一版本。这是帕特里克·奥基夫(Patrick O'Keefe)，我要填补我们通常的共同主持人路易斯·西蒙诺(Louis Simoneau)的希望，他希望他现在不在电脑前，在其他地方度过愉快的时光。我和我通常的共同主持人Brad Williams和Stephan Segraves一起加入了会议，今天我们有一位特别的嘉宾主持人，他的名字叫Ralph Mason，他是SitePoint新社区书《 Thinking Web：Voices of》的合著者之一。社区。本书的标题恰如其分，书的每一章都是由SitePoint社区的不同成员撰写的，可从SitePoint免费获得。拉尔夫，欢迎参加演出。

Ralph: Hi, thanks for having me.

拉尔夫：你好，谢谢你有我。

Patrick: So why don’t you give us the 10, 15 second bio; who you are and what you do.

帕特里克：那你为什么不给我们10、15秒的简历呢？你是谁，你做什么。

Ralph: Well, I used to be a teacher, a teacher of little children, and then I just decided I wanted to try something different, and over the last four years or so I’ve been building websites, basically a freelance web designer and spending most of my spare time that I can get away with in the SitePoint Forums where I’ve basically learnt most of my skills.

拉尔夫：恩，我曾经是一名老师，还是一名小孩子的老师，然后我决定要尝试一些不同的东西，在过去的四年左右的时间里，我一直在建立网站，基本上是一名自由网页设计师，大部分的业余时间都花在了我基本上学会了大部分技能的SitePoint论坛上。

Patrick: Excellent, excellent. Yeah, I met Brad and Stephan in the forums, and we’ve met in real life multiple times now, and I’ve made a lot of great friends, lifelong friends, from the SitePoint Forums.

帕特里克：非常好。是的，我在论坛上认识了Brad和Stephan，现在我们已经在现实生活中多次见面，并且在SitePoint论坛中结识了很多好朋友，终身朋友。

Ralph: Hmm, likewise.

拉尔夫：嗯，同样。

Brad: So I have to ask, what’s better, teaching little kids or teaching browsers to render websites correctly?

布拉德：所以我不得不问，教小孩子或教浏览器正确渲染网站会更好吗？

Ralph: Well, in the end little kids behave better (laughter).

拉尔夫：嗯，最后，小孩子们的表现更好(笑声)。

Patrick: Yeah, I was going to say, having taught little kids you’re perfect to host this show and speak with us three today.

帕特里克：是的，我要说的是，教过小孩子们，您非常适合主持这个节目，并且今天和我们三个说话。

Ralph: Well, I’ll try not to get into that mode because you won’t like me in that teaching mode. But every teacher knows the kid that you’d call IE on the Web, but I’m used to him, never behaves.

拉尔夫：嗯，我会尽量不要进入那种模式，因为在那种教学模式下你不会喜欢我。但是每个老师都知道您会在网络上称呼IE的孩子，但是我已经习惯了他，从不表现。

Patrick: The class clown?

帕特里克：班上的小丑？

Ralph: Yeah, yeah, you’ve got to work out all kinds of ways to get around his antics and keep him in control.

拉尔夫：是的，你必须想出各种方法来解决他的滑稽动作并使他保持控制。

Patrick: Well, you’ve just described my role on this podcast, that’s essentially me, I’m IE, and everybody tries to navigate around me (laughs), so you’ve said it to a T. So you can you tell us a little bit about the Community book project and how it came together.

帕特里克：嗯，您刚刚在这个播客中描述了我的角色，本质上就是我，我是IE，每个人都试图在我周围导航(笑)，所以您已经对T说过了。我们对社区图书项目及其整合方式有所了解。

Ralph: Yeah, well, it’s a dynamic community and people are suggesting things all the time, and suddenly out of the blue early last year in 2010 one of the members, I think I can say his name, Alex Dawson who’s a publisher or a writer in his own right, he’s published a couple of books now, but a very active member in the community at the time, and he said, look, there are so many people around here who are so good at what they do and speak to eloquently in their forum responses, why not put out the offer to let them put something in words and put together a book sort of harnessing some of the knowledge in the forums. And as Sarah said in the podcast last week it got a really good response initially because the opportunity to be published by SitePoint no less is a pretty amazing opportunity. Of course, though, it takes a while to get something like that together and people are busy, and over time not everyone who said they would like to contribute actually did, but by October last year a lot of responses had come in, and then of course there was the big job of working out what to do with them all, and of course they were quite a mixed bag, some were very long, some very short, some pretty hard to understand; it’s difficult for any one group to assess all those things because the topics are so widespread, and there’s probably nobody who could actually understand each topic, a lot of them go right over my head. So as Sarah said last week, there’s something for everybody in there.

拉尔夫：是的，这是一个充满活力的社区，人们一直在建议事情，而在2010年初突然突然失去了成员之一，我想我可以说他的名字是出版商还是出版商Alex Dawson。他本人是作家，现在已经出版了几本书，但当时是社区中非常活跃的成员，他说，看，周围有很多人都很擅长和与他人交谈为什么在他们的论坛回应中雄辩地说，为什么不提出要约，让他们用言语表达一些东西，并整理出一本利用论坛中某些知识的书。正如莎拉(Sarah)上周在播客中所说的那样，最初得到了非常好的反响，因为由SitePoint发行的机会同样是一个了不起的机会。当然，尽管这样需要一段时间才能使人们聚在一起，而且人们很忙，随着时间的流逝，并不是每个愿意表达自己意愿的人都这样做了，但是到了去年10月，已经收到了很多回应，然后当然，要弄清楚如何处理它们，这是一项艰巨的工作，当然，它们是一个混杂的包，有些很长，有些很短，有些很难理解。任何一个小组都很难评估所有这些事情，因为这些主题如此广泛，而且可能没有人真正能够理解每个主题，其中很多都在我头上。因此，正如莎拉(Sarah)上周说的那样，这里每个人都有东西。

Patrick: So you wrote the first chapter of the book, Anatomy of a Website, can you tell us a little bit about what is contained therein?

帕特里克(Patrick)：所以您写了本书的第一章《网站解剖》，您能告诉我们其中包含的内容吗？

Ralph: Yes, well, basically being someone who likes the simple things in life, and probably why I ended up teaching little children because I quite enjoy the simple aspects of a subject, and when I was trying to figure out how websites work and how they’re designed, the first thing I wanted to know of course is what’s the basics of how a website actually works, what is it, what’s its anatomy; I chose that word. So I just set out to give people an initial concept of how a website is structured, and it’s really a lot like a folder on your computer, for example, it’s folders within folders and files in those folders that link together in a special way, and so I just tried to build up a little picture of the various components of a website and how they link together, and then with a mention at the end of how much more complex they can get if you start working with a CMS, a Content Management System. So I really just tried to give an overview of the basic components of a site.

拉尔夫：是的，嗯，基本上是一个喜欢生活中简单事物的人，也许是我为什么要教小孩子的原因，因为我很喜欢该学科的简单方面，以及当我试图弄清楚网站如何工作以及如何工作时它们是经过设计的，我想首先当然要了解的是网站实际工作的基础知识，内容，内容和结构。我选择了那个词。因此，我只是想让人们初步了解网站的结构，它实际上很像您计算机上的文件夹，例如，它是文件夹中的文件夹和这些文件夹中的文件，它们以特殊方式链接在一起，因此，我只是尝试对网站的各个组成部分以及它们如何链接在一起进行简要描述，然后在结尾处提到如果开始使用CMS，它们可以变得更复杂的内容。管理系统。因此，我实际上只是试图概述该网站的基本组成部分。

Patrick: Excellent.

帕特里克：太好了。

Brad: What was the decision to give it away for free? Writing a book obviously takes a lot of time, and you contributed to this one and were co-author so you know that, so I’m curious what the decision behind it to give that away for free was?

布拉德：免费赠送它的决定是什么？写一本书显然要花费很多时间，而您为这本书做出了贡献并且是合著者，所以您知道这一点，所以我很好奇它免费赠与的背后的决定是什么？

Ralph: I guess in a way it’s just following on from the spirit of the community itself where some of us spend a ridiculous amount of time in forums answering questions, helping people out with their code, to the point where you almost write whole websites for people if you’re not careful. And so from that point of view it’s certainly consistent with the way the forum works in that it’s a nice opportunity to share ideas and, of course, most of the people who contributed to the book probably wouldn’t ever get anywhere near an opportunity to publish something anyway. You’ve got Alex Dawson and Paul O’Brien who’ve been published elsewhere, but most of us probably it’s quite fun and exciting just to have the chance to be published in any form. I think Sarah mentioned on the podcast last week as well that if you did try to introduce it as a paid thing there’d be all kinds of other issues that would come into it, whether or not you pay the authors and —

拉尔夫：我想这是从某种意义上来说，是从社区本身的精神开始的，我们中的一些人在论坛上花费大量的时间来回答问题，帮助人们使用他们的代码，直到您几乎为整个网站编写代码为止。人，如果你不小心。因此，从这个角度来看，这与论坛的工作方式肯定是一致的，因为这是一个交流想法的好机会，当然，为本书撰写的大多数人可能永远都找不到机会还是发布一些东西。您已经有Alex Dawson和Paul O'Brien在其他地方出版过，但是我们大多数人可能有一种以任何形式出版的机会，都非常有趣和令人兴奋。我想莎拉(Sarah)在上周的播客中也提到过，如果您确实尝试将其介绍为付费产品，那么无论您是否向作者付款，都会遇到其他各种问题。

Patrick: It just complicates it a great deal.

帕特里克(Patrick)：这使它变得非常复杂。

Ralph: Yeah, and without really being necessary to do that. I don’t think anyone minded at all the fact that it’s a free download; it really means that more people will see it probably in reality.

拉尔夫：是的，而且没有必要这样做。我认为没有人会介意它是免费下载的事实。这确实意味着更多的人可能会在现实中看到它。

Patrick: Right. Well, let’s get down to some news topics here, and like I said, Ralph, join in, jump in whenever you have a thought. So I’ll take the first story, you know it was big news the past week or so, Google+ launching, at least in limited form, invite only access to the new social network from Google. A lot of people are in there, I mean I got an invite I think the day they started getting them out, go me! But I seem to have unlimited invites, I was like who wants one, and I just shot out like 30 of them, 40, including one to Brad but I don’t know if it actually made its connection, Brad?

帕特里克：对。好吧，让我们在这里讨论一些新闻话题，就像我说的那样，Ralph，只要有想法，就加入我们。因此，我将讲第一个故事，您知道这是过去一周左右的大新闻，Google +至少以有限的形式发布，仅邀请Google访问新的社交网络。很多人在那里，我的意思是我得到了邀请，我想他们开始把他们出去的那一天，走吧！但是我似乎受到无限邀请，就像是谁想要一个，我只是像其中的30个一样开枪，其中40个包括布拉德，但是我不知道它是否真正建立了联系，布拉德？

Brad: I never heard of it. What’d you say, Google what?

布拉德：我从没听说过。你怎么说，谷歌呢？

Patrick: (Laughs) Google+, yeah. So Brad’s not in yet, he’s not one of the “in” people yet.

帕特里克：(笑)Google+，是的。因此，布拉德尚未加入，他还不是“参与”人员之一。

Brad: I’m not cool enough apparently.

布拉德：我显然还不够酷。

Patrick: Stephan’s in; Ralph, are you in on Google+ yet?

帕特里克：斯蒂芬进来了；拉尔夫，您在Google+上吗？

Ralph: I’m trying to still figure out what these Twitter and Facebook things are (laughter), no, I’m joking. No, not up with that yet, I haven’t quite worked out what it’s all about, but I mean I’m aware of the + button and adding buttons to your website, but I’m not — this is actually new to me so I’m looking forward to hearing more about this.

拉尔夫：我仍在努力弄清楚这些Twitter和Facebook的东西是什么(笑)，不，我在开玩笑。不，还没有解决，我还没有弄清楚它的全部含义，但是我的意思是我知道+按钮并向您的网站添加按钮，但是我不知道–这对我来说实际上是新的所以我期待听到更多有关此的信息。

Patrick: So Google+, like I said, a new social network from Google, It’s what it is, it’s a social network, reminds you a little bit of Facebook, a little bit of Twitter, and then it’s its own kind of different thing. It’s very clean, it’s very attractive, I like it, and one of the reasons I like it is one of the key features they’re touting is the Circles feature. And essentially what it is, it’s a visual way of sorting your permissions, who gets to access, who gets to view the things that you share. And it’s not that Facebook doesn’t allow you to categorize people, because it does, Facebook’s been beat up over privacy, but what Circles does really well is it makes it, like I said, very visual and very easy to just sort people into these groups and then easily share what you want. I mean every message you send you indicate what group you want to send it to or even a specific person, so you can just share a message with a specific person or a specific group or public. Stephan, have you played around with Circles very much yet?

帕特里克(Patrick)：就像我说的，Google +是Google的一个新社交网络，它就是它，它是一个社交网络，让您想起了一点Facebook，一点Twitter，然后又是另一回事。它非常干净，非常吸引人，我喜欢它，而我喜欢它的原因之一就是他们所吹捧的主要功能之一，就是圈子功能。从本质上讲，这是一种对权限进行排序，谁可以访问，谁可以查看您共享的内容的直观方法。并不是说Facebook不允许您对人进行分类，因为确实如此，Facebook在隐私权方面遭到了殴打，但正如我所说的那样，Circles的真正优势在于，它使视觉效果非常好，而且很容易将人们分类这些小组，然后轻松分享您想要的内容。我的意思是，您发送给您的每封邮件都表明您希望将其发送给哪个组，甚至是某个特定的人，因此您可以只与特定的人或特定的组或公众共享一条消息。史蒂芬(Stephan)，您是否和Circles玩得很开心？

Stephan: Just a little bit, I added my friends, I have my tech group of all the tech geeks out there, and I have my family which the only family member that’s on Google+ is my wife so that’s not very interesting (laughter).

斯蒂芬(Stephan)：一点点，我加了我的朋友，我的技术小组中有所有的技术怪人，还有我的家人，在Google+上唯一的家人是我的妻子，所以这不是很有趣(笑)。

Brad: You know, Patrick, I’m surprised that you dove in because I know you’ve been pretty vocal about not wanting to share too much data with any one service. And I know Google is one of those services that you’ve always maybe shown a little hesitation to use everything that they release. So it’s surprising to hear you say that but it sounds like you are enjoying it.

布拉德：您知道，帕特里克(Patrick)，我很惊讶您加入其中，因为我知道您一直很不愿意与任何一项服务共享太多数据。而且我知道Google是其中的一项服务，您可能总是会有些犹豫，以使用它们发布的所有内容。因此，听到您这么说令人惊讶，但听起来您很喜欢。

Patrick: Yeah, I mean it’s a cool service. I don’t know that I enjoy it more than Facebook or more than Twitter necessarily. I was just on a phone call with my friend Jared W. Smith who’s the webmaster for ReadWriteWeb, a major tech publication, and he was saying how much he’s loving it; he enjoys it way more than any of the other major services out there, he’s been engaging in great conversation, there’s so many smart people on it. And I know that’s what you find maybe with a lot of services early on, KORA comes to mind where you had a lot of high profile very smart people answering questions, and then as more people get in there it’s not to say that more people aren’t smart, but, you know, there’s a watering down effect, there’s maybe less of that wow factor, and it remains to be seen if Google+ can compete long term, but they’ve definitely staked their claim on the notion of privacy, on data liberation, access to your data. You can easily go under settings and export your data that you’ve shared on Google+, there’s a specific area within the accounts settings, like I said, it’s called Data Liberation, and I clicked there right now, I can download my profile data as a .json file, I can download my stream data as a zip file, I can download my contacts and my circles as a zip file, I can export all of my data from Google+ very easily, and you know you can’t do that on Facebook. So I think Google is making a play at distinguishing themselves really on those two basis points, privacy and data portability, as much as anything else.

帕特里克：是的，我的意思是这是一项很棒的服务。我不知道我是否比Facebook或Twitter更喜欢它。我刚和我的朋友Jared W. Smith通话，他是一家主要的技术出版物ReadWriteWeb的网站管理员，他说他有多喜欢它。他比其他任何主要服务更喜欢它，他一直在进行精彩的对话，其中有很多聪明的人。而且我知道这就是您可能会在早期获得大量服务的发现，而KORA会想到您那里有很多高知名度的非常聪明的人在回答问题，然后随着越来越多的人进入那里，并不是说有更多人在这并不聪明，但是，您知道，这会产生淡化的影响，这种影响可能更少，还有待观察Google+是否可以长期竞争，但是他们肯定将其主张押在了隐私这一概念上，在数据解放上，访问您的数据。您可以轻松进入设置并导出您在Google+上共享的数据，帐户设置中有一个特定区域，就像我说的那样，称为数据解放，我现在点击那里，我可以将个人资料下载为.json文件，我可以将流数据下载为zip文件，我可以将联系人和圈子下载为zip文件，可以非常轻松地从Google+导出我的所有数据，并且您知道您无法做到这一点在脸书上。因此，我认为Google确实在区分隐私和数据可移植性这两个基本点上发挥了作用。

Stephan: The one question that I haven’t seen answered yet is how well is it going to plug in with things like Twitter and Facebook, etcetera. Are they going out for the kill here, you know, are they going to try to plug in or are they just going to completely ignore it and hope that people use Google+ exclusively?

斯蒂芬：我还没有看到的一个问题是，将Twitter和Facebook等东西插入该插件的效果如何。您知道他们是在这里杀人吗，还是在尝试插入插件，还是只是完全忽略了它，希望人们只使用Google+？

Brad: Is there an API available?

布拉德：有可用的API吗？

Stephan: I haven’t seen anything, but then again people have been plugging stuff; I saw URL’s for it.

斯蒂芬：我什么都没看见，但是后来人们又开始塞东西了。我看到了它的网址。

Brad: So it’s coming soon.

布拉德：所以很快就要来了。

Stephan: Yeah.

斯蒂芬：是的。

Brad: Yeah, I mean once there’s an API then that essentially opens the door to do whatever they’re going to allow you to do, you know; you can tap that into Facebook and Twitter and whatever. I think to not have an API would be kind of silly on Google’s part, but you’re right, doing that would allow people to still keep their Facebook and maybe just synch them back and forth or push updates one way or the other.

布拉德：是的，我的意思是，一旦有了一个API，那么本质上就打开了大门，可以做他们将允许您做的所有事情。您可以将其输入Facebook和Twitter等。我认为没有API对Google而言有点愚蠢，但是您是对的，这样做会让人们仍然保留自己的Facebook，也许只是来回同步它们或以一种或另一种方式推送更新。

Stephan: Yeah. That’s the big plus for me for things like Twitter, you know, I can push my Twitter straight to Facebook if I want it or I can selectively do it.

斯蒂芬：是的。对于Twitter之类的事情来说，这对我来说是最大的好处，如果我愿意，我可以将Twitter直接推到Facebook，也可以有选择地这样做。

Brad: I honestly hope it takes off because I like competition, and I think when there isn’t competition that’s when companies turn into problem companies, I guess, maybe not the best way to say that, but competition is always good, so when there’s one dominant social network out there, which is pretty much obviously Facebook, that can lead to problems I think, so it’s nice to have; it’ll be nice to have somebody keeping Facebook on their toes and making Facebook innovate, and rather than getting complacent as being number one they’re going to have to keep pushing ahead to keep that hold.

布拉德：我真诚地希望它能因为我喜欢竞争而腾飞，我认为当没有竞争时，公司就会变成有问题的公司，我想这也许不是最好的说法，但是竞争总是好的，所以当有一个主要的社交网络，很明显是Facebook，它可能导致我认为的问题，所以拥有它真是太好了；有人会保持Facebook的脚尖并使自己创新，这将是一件很高兴的事，而不是因为成为第一名而沾沾自喜，他们将必须继续努力以保持这一地位。

Patrick: Yeah, and there’s an article on SitePoint, an introduction to Google+ by Joel Falconer, and he points out some of the key features. Another one of those is the Hangouts feature, which is not necessarily something that’s brand new, but just how they do it is really cool where you can bring together up to 10 people to have a video conversation. You know there are services like Tinychat that allow you to have group video conversation, obviously Skype is an app that allows for that, as well as others, but there’s a social aspect to it; if you could group your Facebook friends into one group and then have them enter or exit a room as they please and just join up video, like Falconer compares it to like having a virtual bar in a way where anyone who sees this hangout’s going on and they’re in this specific group they can join in, see each other and chat, and also watch YouTube videos together. And I haven’t actually participated in one, but it seems like it’s a pretty cool, fun little thing that they have with the feature. And in all, like I said, it feels like they’re staking their claim in being different when it comes to privacy and data access, and I think that’s where they’re going at Facebook. And maybe ironically enough the most followed person, because Google+ it does play into both Facebook and Twitter in that there’s not that same, at least in my view, implied or hoped for reciprocation, you know, when you get a message from someone it just says they’re following you, it’s more like Twitter than it is a Facebook friendship because it’s not telling you where they put you in their circles, you could be in the circle that says “never read,” they could just be adding you for the number or you could be in the family circle or friends circle or acquaintances or some other circle they’ve created to manage their permissions, so it just say they’re now sharing with you and then you can share with them but you can put them into, again, on the flip side, you can put them into a category where you never read them. So it’s more of one-way opt-in sharing than a simple ‘add as friend, yes, no’, yes, it makes you think and it makes you categorize people, and with that comes a little bit of Twitter’s functionality as well because what I was going to say is the most followed person on Google+, the person who has been added to the most circles, any guesses, has anybody read the story on this?

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，SitePoint上有一篇文章，乔尔·法尔康纳(Joel Falconer)介绍了Google+，他指出了一些关键功能。其中一个功能是环聊功能，它不一定是全新功能，但是他们的操作方式确实很酷，您最多可以召集10个人进行视频对话。您知道有诸如Tinychat之类的服务可以让您进行群组视频对话，很明显，Skype和其他应用程序都支持该应用程序，但是它具有社交性。如果您可以将您的Facebook朋友分组，然后让他们随意进入或退出某个房间，然后加入视频，例如Falconer将该视频比作一个虚拟酒吧，那么任何看到此视频群聊的人都可以他们属于这个特定的小组，他们可以加入，彼此见面和聊天，还可以一起观看YouTube视频。而且我实际上还没有参加过，但是他们似乎很喜欢这个功能，很酷，很有趣。总而言之，就像我说的那样，感觉到他们在隐私和数据访问方面都在坚持与众不同的主张，而我认为这就是他们在Facebook上的目的。也许具有讽刺意味的是，最受关注的人，因为Google+确实在Facebook和Twitter中都发挥了作用，至少在我看来，默示或希望得到回报是不一样的，至少当我收到某人的消息时说他们在关注您，这更像是Twitter，而不是Facebook的友谊，因为它不是在告诉您他们将您放在圈子中的位置，您可能在圈子中说“从未读过”，他们可能只是在为您添加数字，或者您可能在他们创建的用于管理权限的家庭圈子，朋友圈子，熟人或其他圈子中，所以它只是说他们现在正在与您共享，然后您可以与他们共享但可以同样，从另一面看，您可以将它们放入一个从未读过的类别。因此，与其说是一个简单的“添加为朋友，是，不是”，还不如说是一种单选加入共享，是的，它使您思考并对人进行分类，并且随之而来的还有Twitter的一些功能，因为我要说的是Google+上关注度最高的人，被添加到最多圈子的人，有没有猜到，有人读过这个故事吗？

Ralph: No, I haven’t.

拉尔夫：不，我没有。

Patrick: It’s Mark Zuckerberg (laughter).

帕特里克：是马克·扎克伯格(笑声)。

Brad: Go figure.

布拉德：去吧。

Patrick: Yeah, Mark Zuckerberg is the most followed person on Google+ right now. There’s a site, Socialstatistics that charts who has the most followers and it’s not even close, it’s number one Mark Zuckerberg, 34,759 people. Second place, Google co-founder Larry Page, 23,633, and third place, other co-founder Sergey Brin, 18,715, so together they can top Zuckerberg, but it takes them coming together to do so. And the top ten is a lot of tech people right now, Vic Gundotra who is the senior vice president of engineering of Google and is working on Google+, Robert Scoble, Matt Cutts, Leo LaPorte, Bradley Horowitz and MG Seigler from TechCrunch and Gina Trapani who founded Lifehacker. And so there’s a lot of tech people, there are a lot of tech minds; it’s like one of those early stage social networks where it’s all the cool tech people.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，马克·扎克伯格(Mark Zuckerberg)目前是Google+上关注度最高的人。有一个名为Socialstatistics的网站，该网站记录了追踪者最多的网站，而且距离该网站还很遥远，它是马克·扎克伯格的第一名，共有34,759人。谷歌联合创始人拉里·佩奇(Larry Page，23,633)位居第二，其他联合创始人谢尔盖·布林(Sergey Brin)，18,715，位居第三，因此他们可以共同超越扎克伯格，但要齐心协力才能做到。目前排名前十位的是很多技术人员，Vic Gundotra是Google工程部高级副总裁，目前在Google+上工作，TechCrunch和Gina Trapani的Robert Scoble，Matt Cutts，Leo LaPorte，Bradley Horowitz和MG Seigler创立了Lifehacker的人。因此，有很多技术人员，也有很多技术人员。这就像是那些早期的社交网络之一，那里的技术人员都很酷。

Ralph: So you’re saying that anyone can join this at the moment or you have to wait for an invite at this stage?

拉尔夫：所以您是说现在任何人都可以加入，还是在这个阶段必须等待邀请？

Patrick: Well, I’ve heard stories that said it was open for a period and then it’s not, and they have invites and then they don’t; right now I guess you can’t get in, but they’re going to open this up I would think soon enough because right now it’s in that proverbial beta, right, even though it doesn’t say beta under the logo, so they’re still figuring things out, still testing things out. And I mean obviously they’re going for this to be a very popular network, so it’s only a matter of time before you get an invite if you really want one or it’s just open to the public in general.

帕特里克(Patrick)：好吧，我听到过一些故事，说它已经开放了一段时间，然后没有开放。他们有邀请，然后没有。现在我猜想你不能进入，但是他们会尽快打开这个窗口，因为现在它在那个众所周知的beta中，是的，尽管它在徽标下没有说beta，所以他们仍在解决问题，仍在测试问题。而且我的意思是显然他们希望这成为一个非常受欢迎的网络，因此，如果您真的想要一个邀请函，或者只是向公众开放，则只是一个时间问题。

Ralph: I’m just looking at their site now and it says it has “Take the Tour,” but one thing I always wish I could find on the Web with websites is a simple overview of what the thing is because, I don’t know, maybe it’s just because I’m getting old or something, but I don’t tend to — I’d love to have an overall concept of what this is, and I still don’t quite see where it fits in, in relation to something like Twitter or Facebook. So you just have to play with it and get used to it or have you seen some kind of something that describes what it is just for a simple first look?

拉尔夫：我现在只是在看他们的网站，上面说它是“ Tour the Tour”，但是我一直希望我可以在网站上找到的一件事是对事情的简单概述，因为我不知道。不知道，也许这仅仅是因为我变老了或什么了，但我不倾向于-我希望对这是一个总体概念，但我仍然不太清楚它的适用范围，关于Twitter或Facebook之类的东西。因此，您只需要使用它并习惯它，或者您已经看过某种描述它只是为了简单的初看起来的东西？

Patrick: Well, the article at SitePoint by Joel Falconer has some description, I’m sure the tour helps, and it is what it is, I think it’s a social network, so what you think of Facebook as it’s very similar to that I think, and then they have their small differences, the Hangouts feature being one of their key features right now, the Circles feature which basically allows you to more easily visualize those permissions and how you group people and what you share with people, and the article at SitePoint talks about that. And it’s not that it’s some brand new thing, it’s just that Google is finally making their play with it, and then they have some features and some ideals I guess you could say that might make it more attractive to other people.

帕特里克(Patrick)：好吧，乔尔·法尔科纳(Joel Falconer)在SitePoint上发表的文章有一些描述，我相信这次旅行对您有帮助，而且它确实是这样，我认为它是一个社交网络，因此您对Facebook的看法与我非常相似想想，然后他们之间就有了细微的差别，环聊功能现在是他们的主要功能之一，圈子功能基本上可以让您更轻松地形象化这些权限以及如何将人们以及与他人分享的内容可视化，以及本文在SitePoint上讨论了这一点。并不是说这是一个崭新的事物，而是Google最终开始使用它，然后它们具有一些功能和一些理想，我想您可以说这可能会使它对其他人更具吸引力。

Ralph: Hmm-mm.

拉尔夫：嗯。

Patrick: So let’s stick on the social networks kick and talk about one network that has been hurting, right, we have a network that’s been launched and now we have one that’s been hurting. MySpace was sold at the end of June to Specific Media which has been an advertising network and is I guess turning itself more to a media company. As part of the sale they’ll also give a stake to Justin Timberlake who’s going to help with strategy for the company, and MySpace of course has been beat up pretty badly. There was a chart on the Business Insider that showed traffic from when it was sold in August of 2005 to News Corp for $580 million to the traffic now in June when they were sold for $35 million, so do the math, they have dropped in value about $545 million dollars. Oddly enough their traffic is actually higher right now than when they were sold to News Corp, but obviously at that point they were on the way up and a hot company, now they’re on the way down and not such a hot company. I don’t know, are any of us still on MySpace?

帕特里克(Patrick)：因此，让我们坚持使用社交网络，谈论一个正在受到伤害的网络，对，我们已经启动了一个网络，现在我们正在受到伤害。 MySpace于6月底被出售给了专业媒体，该媒体一直是广告网络，我想更多地转向媒体公司。作为出售的一部分，他们还将向贾斯汀·汀布莱克(Justin Timberlake)入股，贾斯汀·汀布莱克(Justin Timberlake)将为公司的战略提供帮助，而MySpace当然遭到了惨败。 Business Insider上有一张图表，显示从2005年8月以5.8亿美元的价格卖给新闻集团的流量到现在6月以3500万美元的价格出售的流量，数学也是如此，它们的价值下降了约5.45亿美元。奇怪的是，他们现在的访问量实际上比卖给新闻集团的时候要高，但是很明显，那时他们正在上升，并且是一家热门公司，现在他们正在下降，而不是这样的热门公司。我不知道，我们中间还有人吗？

Brad: I have an account but I literally login to it maybe once a month or I’m sorry, once every six months, maybe like twice a year just to see. Every time I login to it I’m kind of lost because I don’t know what I’m looking at because it’s changed. But this isn’t really surprising, I mean I think we all knew MySpace has been having problems for a long time; most people that probably listen to the show don’t use MySpace, most of our friends and family don’t use MySpace anymore. I remember watching TV commercials and all the car dealers and this and that had ‘visit our MySpace’ and you don’t see that anymore, it’s all Facebook and Twitter.

布拉德：我有一个帐户，但我可能每个月登录一次，或者很抱歉，每六个月登录一次，也许就像每年两次登录。每次登录时，我都会迷失方向，因为我不知道自己在看什么，因为它已更改。但这并不奇怪，我的意思是我想我们都知道MySpace长期以来一直存在问题。大多数可能听过该节目的人都不使用MySpace，我们的大多数朋友和家人都不再使用MySpace。我记得曾经看过电视广告和所有的汽车经销商，而这些都“参观了我们的MySpace”，您再也看不到了，全都是Facebook和Twitter。

Patrick: And a lot of bars and clubs had and even still have their websites on a MySpace page.

帕特里克(Patrick)：很多酒吧和俱乐部在MySpace页面上甚至至今仍拥有自己的网站。

Brad: Just reading some of these articles I think they really need to kind of step back and take a look at how they can rebrand themselves, and I think they need to come to terms with the fact that they are not going to be The social network, so what can they do going forward to be successful because at this rate they’re just going to keep going down.

布拉德：只要阅读其中一些文章，我认为他们确实需要退后一步，看看他们如何重塑自己的品牌，而且我认为他们需要接受这样的事实：他们不会成为社会网络，那么他们将如何做才能取得成功，因为按照这种速度，他们只会继续失败。

Stephan: You’d think they’d try to leverage the whole band thing because you know a lot of bands had their music on there I guess with other websites out there that are kind of doing the free music download type stuff.

史蒂芬：你会认为他们会尝试利用整个乐队的东西，因为你知道很多乐队在那里都有他们的音乐，我猜想那里的其他网站都在做免费的音乐下载类型的事情。

Brad: And that’s where they started with music and bands and then they kind of went into this whole social network boom and really kicked it off in my opinion to the masses, and I know they’ve kind of gone back to that recently, back to more of the music, trying to get back in the indie scene and, yeah, I honestly don’t know what they could do. They certainly need a definite restructure, need to kind of reorganize and just figure out what they’re doing, and who knows, maybe Justin Timberlake can bring that to the table, I mean he was in the Social Network movie so he’s obviously qualified.

布拉德：那是他们从音乐和乐队开始的地方，然后他们进入了整个社交网络的繁荣期，在我看来，这确实在大众中拉开了序幕，而且我知道他们最近又回到了那个时代。播放更多音乐，尝试回到独立场景中，是的，老实说，我不知道他们能做什么。他们当然需要进行明确的重组，需要进行某种重组，并弄清楚自己在做什么，而且谁知道，也许Justin Timberlake可以将其提上议事日程，我的意思是说他参加了《社交网络》电影，所以他显然很合格。

Patrick: Yeah, he played Sean Parker in a movie. And I actually like the move for bringing Timberlake on board, he’s always seemed like a pretty smart guy to me, and I think they’re obviously on the way down; if he can help with this strategy a little bit I’m interested to see how that goes. When it comes to direction obviously Specific Media is not offering much, but they did say that they plan to make MySpace a “Premiere digital destination for original shows, video content and music.” So, if you read into that then of course maybe they’re transitioning more into the digital content, video content, music content where they still have a market, they still have an audience there, because music was a strong point for them and it might still be a strong point as far as their traffic is concerned. They do have a pretty robust music section with full albums for legal listening, and so that kind of was their bread and butter and they might just be going back to that like you mentioned.

帕特里克：是的，他在电影中饰演了肖恩·帕克。而且我实际上很喜欢把Timberlake加入公司的举动，他在我看来一直很聪明，而且我认为他们显然正在走下坡路。如果他能在这个策略上有所帮助，我很想看看情况如何。当谈到发展方向时，Specific Media显然没有提供太多服务，但他们确实表示计划使MySpace成为“原创节目，视频内容和音乐的首选数字目的地”。因此，如果您读懂了这些内容，那么当然他们可能会更多地过渡到他们仍然拥有市场的数字内容，视频内容，音乐内容，那里仍然会有观众，因为音乐是他们的强项，就他们的流量而言，可能仍然是一个优势。他们的音乐部分确实很健壮，有完整的唱片集可供合法聆听，所以这种情况就是他们的生硬，他们可能会回到您提到的那种状态。

Ralph: From my point of view MySpace had started to fade by the time I even got interested in these things, and every time I go to it, it just looks I have to say just so ugly, I think maybe they could do a bit on the design side of it, I don’t know, maybe that’s its identity now but it’s just never something that’s attracted me.

拉尔夫：从我的角度来看，我什至对这些东西感兴趣的时候，MySpace就开始消失了，每次我去看时，看起来我不得不说得太丑了，我想也许他们可以做些在设计方面，我不知道，也许这就是它的身份，但从来没有什么吸引过我。

Patrick: Yeah, I haven’t logged in to my MySpace profile in many, many months. I don’t know, I just never had much going on at MySpace at any point in time, I don’t know, Facebook is a site that I have decent connections, friends and some activity, MySpace I just never really got into; I kind of missed that whole thing other than just having an account. And just to look at the chart from Silicon Alley Insider that showcases the traffic according to ComScore, from August ’05 to actually May 2011 their traffic hit a high in about December, I would say January, February of ’09, and that was at probably about 75, 78 million unique visitors per month at that time, and that was the high. Now as of May they’re down to about 37 million, so from — that’s about a drop in half you could say. And when they were purchased by News Corp they were just above 20 million for 580 million, so obviously that’s a pretty massive loss of value there over a point of five years to lose from 580 to 35 million.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，我已经很多个月没有登录MySpace了。我不知道，我只是在任何时候都没有在MySpace上做很多事情，我也不知道，Facebook是一个我有不错的人脉，朋友和一些活动的网站，MySpace我从来没有真正进入过。除了拥有一个账户外，我有点想念这件事。只是看一下Silicon Alley Insider的图表，它显示了ComScore的流量，从05年8月到2011年5月，他们的流量在12月左右达到了最高水平，我想说的是09年1月，2月，当时大约每月75、7,800万唯一身份访问者，这是很高的。截止到5月，现在他们已降至3,700万左右，而您可以说，这一数字下降了大约一半。当新闻集团购买它们时，它们的价格仅为5.8亿，刚好超过2,000万，所以很明显，这是五年来从580到3500万的巨大价值损失。

Ralph: Is that before the days of Facebook really took off or is that around the same time; has something cut in on their business or is just that they’re losing their edge?

拉尔夫：是在Facebook时代之前真正起飞还是在同一时间？他们的业务有所削减还是仅仅是他们失去了优势？

Patrick: I think it’s safe to say it’s been Facebook, I think that’s pretty safe to say.

帕特里克(Patrick)：我可以肯定地说这是Facebook，我认为这很安全。

Brad: Yeah, I would agree.

布拉德：是的，我同意。

Patrick: Yeah, Facebook was, looking at the dates now, but they were founded in 2004, February 2004 they launched, but they were closed to the public, they were college only and then they launched outside of Harvard, other colleges. So after it was available to schools for a while it was open to the public September 26, 2006 to anyone over the age of 13 with a valid email address, so if we pull back to the chart for November 2006 MySpace is on a way up at that point, they’re on the way up, traffic is going up November 2006, continues to go up, like I said. And finally peaks in late 2008, early 2009, before taking this pretty sudden drop, especially accelerated over the last year really very drastically. And this chart is actually contrasted by Facebook’s U.S. monthly unique visitors, it’s measured by ComScore. So Facebook actually reaches MySpace in April or May of ’09, and then Facebook just goes up like crazy traffic-wise, they are now at about 160 million unique visitors per month, so obviously a lot of people visiting Facebook and not as many people visiting MySpace. But still, MySpace has traffic that most webmasters would kill for, so where there’s traffic there’s still potential, they just have to turn it around.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，Facebook当时正在查看日期，但它们成立于2004年，并于2004年2月启动，但它们不对公众开放，仅是大学，然后在哈佛大学和其他大学之外成立。因此，在向学校开放了一段时间之后，它于2006年9月26日向13岁以上，带有有效电子邮件地址的任何人开放给公众使用，因此，如果我们回到2006年11月的图表，MySpace将会上升那时，他们正在上升，流量在2006年11月上升，并且继续上升，就像我说的那样。最终在2008年底，2009年初达到顶峰，然后突然下降，尤其是在去年急剧加速。这张图表实际上是与Facebook美国每月的独立访问者(由ComScore衡量)形成对比的。因此，Facebook实际上是在09年4月或5月到达MySpace的，然后Facebook就像疯狂的流量一样上升，他们现在每月约有1.6亿的唯一身份访问者，因此显然有很多人在访问Facebook，而不是那么多访问MySpace。但是，MySpace仍然拥有大多数网站管理员会杀死的流量，因此，在仍有流量的地方，仍然有潜力，他们只需将其改掉即可。

Ralph: I thought it was worth since I came here to talk a bit about forums, it’s amazing some of the things that actually come up there, they’re more than just a place for trying to figure out why your right column has dropped below your left column. People post really interesting things there and I’ve learned a lot from being there. There are competitions that are run like Paul O’Brien’s CSS Quizzes, and I thought I’d just mention that just this last weekend I was browsing the forums on Sunday evening and one of the members called Jason Knight, aka Deathshadow60, he mentioned that he’s just been playing around with a new kind of dropdown menu. He was just asking if anyone had ever seen it before because as far as he knew a new way of doing it, it’s very simple code and it simply uses overflow hidden instead of absolutely placing the drop menu off screen. And it turns out that it has been done before recently, but it seems to be like one of those things where an idea just suddenly appears in different places at the same time. And I thought to myself it’s such a neat little dropdown, it’s very accessible, and if you wanted to check it out, if you wanted to find your way directly there, if you went to this forum index it was a featured thread on Sunday the 3rd of July. But it’s worth checking out just to see if you’re interested in doing dropdown menus, if you’re into that sort of thing; I’m definitely going to try it on my next time I have to do a dropdown because the first thing I wanted to do was test it on screen readers and tabbing on the keyboard, and it works really well and it’s very lightweight code, so you never know what’s going to pop up there. And there’s never really been a perfectly accessible dropdown menu, so anything that gets closer to it I think is worth checking out, although obviously these days with mobile and touchscreens and everything that introduces a whole different issue with dropdown menus in the first place, but still this is a really interesting way of looking at it.

拉尔夫：我以为自从我来这里谈论一些论坛以来就很值得了，令人惊奇的是实际上发生的一些事情，它们不仅仅是一个试图弄清楚为什么您的右栏落在下面的地方。您的左栏。人们在那里发布真正有趣的东西，而我从那里学到了很多东西。有像Paul O'BrienCSS Quizzes这样的竞赛，我想我只是想提一下，就在上周末，我在周日晚上浏览了论坛，其中一个成员叫Jason Knight，又名Deathshadow60，他提到他一直在玩一种新的下拉菜单。他只是问是否有人看过它，因为据他所知，这是一种非常简单的代码，它只是使用了隐藏的溢出，而不是将放下菜单完全放在屏幕之外。事实证明，它是最近才完成的，但是似乎就像一个想法突然在同一时间突然出现在不同地方的情况之一。我以为自己是一个非常简洁的下拉列表，非常易于访问，如果您想查看一下，如果您想直接在那找到自己的出路，如果您访问了这个论坛索引，那么它是星期日的特色话题7月3日。但是值得一试，看看您是否对下拉菜单感兴趣，如果您喜欢这种事情；下次我一定要下拉菜单时，我肯定会尝试它，因为我想做的第一件事是在屏幕阅读器上测试它并在键盘上按Tab键，它工作得很好，并且代码非常轻巧，所以你永远不知道那里会弹出什么。而且从来没有真正能够完美访问下拉菜单，因此，我认为值得一试的所有内容都值得一看，尽管如今显然是通过移动和触摸屏进行的，而所有事情首先都带来了与下拉菜单完全不同的问题，但是这仍然是一种非常有趣的观察方式。

Brad: So I came across an interesting fun article, and it’s called Ten Ways to Prove Your Programming Skills, which I thought was a good read and I’m sure one a lot of our listeners would enjoy. I think it’s easy as developers and designers, whatever you do around the Web, it’s easy to get kind of stuck in a rut of what you do and maybe not push yourself to learn either new languages or to improve upon the language that you do primarily. So this article kind of goes through ten steps that can help you improve your programming skills whether you’re a developer, designer, whatever it may be, and a lot of them were pretty good that I hadn’t really thought about. So I thought we could run through this list quickly. Number one, these are in no particular order, number one is Learn a New Programming Language. So basically the theory is if all you do is PHP inside and out and you know it inside and out and you want to improve upon it even more, pick up a different language, pickup a language you’ve never touched before, maybe Ruby, maybe dive over and work on a little bit, maybe whatever, just look at a different language and see. Because all languages, I think as developers and designers we know that all languages are very similar, it’s syntax that’s the main difference obviously, so sometimes diving into different languages can open up the doors of thinking different ways when you’re programming and whatever it is you do use. And just for context, Stephan I know you do some programming, I know it’s not your day job but you would consider yourself a developer, right?

布拉德：所以我碰到了一篇有趣的有趣的文章，叫做《证明您的编程技巧的十种方法》，我认为这是一本不错的书，我相信很多听众会喜欢的。我认为开发人员和设计师很容易，无论您在网络上做什么，都容易陷入对自己所做的事情的迷惑中，并且可能不会强迫自己学习新语言或改进自己主要使用的语言。因此，本文将分十步走，可以帮助您提高编程技巧，无论您是开发人员，设计师还是其他人，其中很多都是我从未真正想到的。因此，我认为我们可以快速浏览此列表。第一，这些没有特别的顺序，第一是学习新的编程语言。因此，基本上，理论是，如果您要做的就是从内到外都了解PHP，并且又从内到外都了解它，并且想进一步改进它，选择另一种语言，再选择一种从未接触过的语言，也许是Ruby，也许潜入一点，然后在上工作，也许是什么，只是看看另一种语言然后看看。因为我认为所有语言都是开发人员和设计师，所以我们都知道所有语言都非常相似，因此语法是最主要的区别，因此有时在使用各种语言时，进入不同的语言可以打开思考不同方式的大门。你使用吗？就上下文而言，Stephan我知道您要进行一些编程，我知道这不是您的日常工作，但您会认为自己是开发人员，对吗？

Stephan: Yeah, occasionally (laughs).

斯蒂芬：是的，偶尔(笑)。

Brad: And, Patrick, I know you maintain your own websites but you would not consider yourself a developer, is that right?

布拉德：而且，帕特里克，我知道您维护自己的网站，但您不会认为自己是开发人员，对吗？

Patrick: In respect to the profession of developer no I would not.

帕特里克：关于开发商的职业，我不会。

Brad: But you can hack away, I mean you have some very nice looking sites, so I know for the most part you know —

布拉德：但是您可以破解，我的意思是您有一些非常漂亮的网站，所以我知道大部分您都知道-

Patrick: Yeah, I can correct the occasional PHP error, I can code a little HTML and, yeah, that’s about it, some CSS.

帕特里克：是的，我可以纠正偶尔PHP错误，可以编写一些HTML，是的，就是一些CSS。

Brad: And, Ralph, how would you kind of classify yourself?

布拉德：而且，拉尔夫，您如何对自己进行分类？

Ralph: A struggling beginner with anything other than HTML and CSS. I keep tinkering with JavaScript, PHP and even got a fantastic little book that’s introduction to programming by introducing it through Ruby, but I haven’t gotten far into that. But I would certainly backup what you said about — I’ve spent many years, and probably my best years, studying spoken languages, they’re actually dead languages like Greek and Latin, and the more you study of those the more you understand about your own language, and so I’m sure it works the same with programming languages that, as you say, you can see how to think in another language; it affects the way you use your own language, so I’m sure that parallel is valid.

Ralph：除了HTML和CSS之外，其他人都在苦苦挣扎的初学者。我一直在修补JavaScript，PHP，甚至有一本很棒的小书，它是通过Ruby来介绍编程的，但是我对此还不很深。但是，我肯定会支持您所说的话-我已经花了很多年，也许是我最好的几年，学习口语，它们实际上是死语，例如希腊语和拉丁语，而且您学习的越多，对您的了解就越多您自己的语言，因此我确信它与编程语言(如您所说的)一样工作，您可以看到如何用另一种语言思考；它会影响您使用自己的语言的方式，因此，我确定并行有效。

Brad: Great, yeah. So I mean the first one it sounds like that’s exactly what you’re doing now, you’re learning a new language, right, you’re working with JavaScript and trying to get good with that, which I will certainly say JavaScript’s not my forte but I can dabble with it. So number two is read a good challenging programming book. So there’re obviously a lot of books out there, a lot of programming books.

布拉德：是的，是的。所以我的意思是，第一个听起来像是您现在正在做的，正在学习一种新的语言，对，您正在使用JavaScript并试图做到这一点，我肯定会说JavaScript不是我的长处，但我可以涉猎。因此，第二本是一本很有挑战性的编程书籍。因此，显然有很多书籍和编程书籍。

Patrick: Who writes programming books? Do we know any publishers? Does anyone here publish any programming books, maybe SitePoint (laughs)? No. Maybe Wiley.

帕特里克：谁写编程书？我们认识任何出版商吗？这里有没有人出版任何编程书籍，也许有SitePoint(笑)？不，也许是威利。

Brad: I may have written a book or two, but as I said, this points out read a challenging book. So there are obviously a lot of books out there on whatever language you’re looking for, and many of them start kind of at a beginner level and work their way through intermediate to advanced, some are more advanced, but the tip here says read a challenging book, and he actually links to a few. One is the Art of Computer Programming which he labels as a real challenging book, there’s structure and interpretation of computer programs, a discipline of programming and then the famous dragon book which is all about compilers. So I’m sure that’s an extremely riveting read, but as you can imagine, reading a challenging book like that, and most of these books are not language specific, they are simply theories around programming and different ways to structure your program and things like that, so it kind of takes the language out of it for the most part.

布拉德：我可能写了一本书或两本书，但是正如我所说，这指出要读一本具有挑战性的书。 So there are obviously a lot of books out there on whatever language you're looking for, and many of them start kind of at a beginner level and work their way through intermediate to advanced, some are more advanced, but the tip here says read a challenging book, and he actually links to a few. One is the Art of Computer Programming which he labels as a real challenging book, there's structure and interpretation of computer programs, a discipline of programming and then the famous dragon book which is all about compilers. So I'm sure that's an extremely riveting read, but as you can imagine, reading a challenging book like that, and most of these books are not language specific, they are simply theories around programming and different ways to structure your program and things like that, so it kind of takes the language out of it for the most part.

Patrick: Yeah, so if you’re looking to do some good stuff in WordPress you might start with Professional WordPress, but then once you’re a little more advanced you might turn to a book like Professional WordPress Plugin Development to really make WordPress do what you want.

Patrick: Yeah, so if you're looking to do some good stuff in WordPress you might start with Professional WordPress, but then once you're a little more advanced you might turn to a book like Professional WordPress Plugin Development to really make WordPress do what you want.

Brad: There you go, good example (laughter). I approve of this. Number three is actually Join an Open Source Project, which is another great tip. Most listeners know I work with WordPress quite a bit, and there’s no better way to really improve your skills than to dive into any open source project. You probably want to find one that’s kind of inline with what kind of development you’re doing, but one of the beauties of open source is it gets your code out there in front of others, you’re going to learn from people who are active in the project and they’re going to help you, they’re going to guide you along the way, and so you maybe submit a patch to WordPress Core or Drupal Core, whatever it may be, and they’re going to either accept or reject it, and if they reject it chances are they will tell you why and what maybe you did wrong or what you could do better so you can fix your patch and get it accepted.

Brad: There you go, good example (laughter). I approve of this. Number three is actually Join an Open Source Project, which is another great tip. Most listeners know I work with WordPress quite a bit, and there's no better way to really improve your skills than to dive into any open source project. You probably want to find one that's kind of inline with what kind of development you're doing, but one of the beauties of open source is it gets your code out there in front of others, you're going to learn from people who are active in the project and they're going to help you, they're going to guide you along the way, and so you maybe submit a patch to WordPress Core or Drupal Core, whatever it may be, and they're going to either accept or reject it, and if they reject it chances are they will tell you why and what maybe you did wrong or what you could do better so you can fix your patch and get it accepted.

Stephan: And they may tell you in very terse terms.

Brad: They may (laughter) or they may not, it really depends.

Patrick: Or they may just insult your humanity and make you feel like less of a person.

Brad: Yes, it’s important to remember on the Internet that just because something sounds that it’s not necessarily that way because it’s hard to gage emotion from text. But, yeah, I highly recommend it too, join an open source project, get involved, it’s a great way to learn. Number four, and this is one I haven’t really done but I’ve kind of started looking at it, Solve Programming Puzzles. So there’s actually websites out there dedicated to programming puzzles, some are math oriented, some are specifically just programming, but you can actually go out there and work and try to solve these puzzles and it kind of is a great way to kind of get your mind to develop different ways of thinking and solve some of these more complex — and some aren’t too complex but some are impossibly complex, and there are some links to some pretty interesting sites where you can dive in and start playing with some of these puzzles.

Brad: Yes, it's important to remember on the Internet that just because something sounds that it's not necessarily that way because it's hard to gage emotion from text. But, yeah, I highly recommend it too, join an open source project, get involved, it's a great way to learn. Number four, and this is one I haven't really done but I've kind of started looking at it, Solve Programming Puzzles. So there's actually websites out there dedicated to programming puzzles, some are math oriented, some are specifically just programming, but you can actually go out there and work and try to solve these puzzles and it kind of is a great way to kind of get your mind to develop different ways of thinking and solve some of these more complex — and some aren't too complex but some are impossibly complex, and there are some links to some pretty interesting sites where you can dive in and start playing with some of these puzzles.

Stephan: The Project Euler site is fantastic.

Brad: Have you done that before, Stephan?

Stephan: Yeah. My wife uses it a lot for her math classes, so some of it I’ll sit down and I’ll try to do them myself and try to figure out code for them.

斯蒂芬：是的。 My wife uses it a lot for her math classes, so some of it I'll sit down and I'll try to do them myself and try to figure out code for them.

Patrick: And congratulations on being able to pronounce that.

Stephan: Euler?

Brad: Yeah, I’m glad I didn’t say it because I was going to say Uler (laughter).

Brad: Yeah, I'm glad I didn't say it because I was going to say Uler (laughter).

Stephan: I thank my wife; I wouldn’t have known how to say it either.

Stephan: I thank my wife; I wouldn't have known how to say it either.

Brad: Number five is an obvious one, Program; start writing program from scratch, architect it out, implement it, really just code, do what you do and just keep doing it, but it’s basically just saying try something from scratch, architect out maybe a new program, maybe a new — if you do things like Drupal maybe a new module for Drupal or a plugin for WordPress, whatever it may be, start from scratch, you know, start from scratching out on paper and then dive in to build it and see if you can do it.

Brad: Number five is an obvious one, Program; start writing program from scratch, architect it out, implement it, really just code, do what you do and just keep doing it, but it's basically just saying try something from scratch, architect out maybe a new program, maybe a new — if you do things like Drupal maybe a new module for Drupal or a plugin for WordPress, whatever it may be, start from scratch, you know, start from scratching out on paper and then dive in to build it and see if you can do it.

Patrick: Don’t just talk about it, be about it.

Patrick: Don't just talk about it, be about it.

Brad: That’s right, words to live by, right. Number six, Read and Study Code, this is also another excellent tip, this is one I do quite a bit. If you’re curious how things work look at the code, dive into it; open source project the code’s available to you. He actually links to the Linux Kernel; if you want to really dive into to some code that might be a bit on the insanely advanced side.

Brad: That's right, words to live by, right. Number six, Read and Study Code, this is also another excellent tip, this is one I do quite a bit. If you're curious how things work look at the code, dive into it; open source project the code's available to you. He actually links to the Linux Kernel; if you want to really dive into to some code that might be a bit on the insanely advanced side.

Patrick: That’s like reading the Merriam Webster Dictionary to learn about English.

Patrick: That's like reading the Merriam Webster Dictionary to learn about English.

Brad: Obviously being a Web community here we probably want to look at something more Web orientated. But, yeah, dive into Drupal, WordPress, Jumla, whatever, dive into some code, there’s a lot, Magento, there’s code out there, dive into it and see how they’re doing things, see how they’re making queries of the database, see how they’re looping through arrays, whatever it may be study and learn from it.

Brad: Obviously being a Web community here we probably want to look at something more Web orientated. But, yeah, dive into Drupal, WordPress, Jumla, whatever, dive into some code, there's a lot, Magento, there's code out there, dive into it and see how they're doing things, see how they're making queries of the database, see how they're looping through arrays, whatever it may be study and learn from it.

Ralph: And don’t forget front end code as well because that’s even easier to study, that’s how I learned a lot about websites, seeing things I liked and just looking under the hood through the developer tool system.

Ralph: And don't forget front end code as well because that's even easier to study, that's how I learned a lot about websites, seeing things I liked and just looking under the hood through the developer tool system.

Brad: Excellent point.

Ralph: I actually found out about sprites by looking at websites before I even discovered there was a name for it, and things like that.

Brad: Yeah, I’ve actually done that quite a bit where you see a feature on a site and you’re like I wonder how they do that, and then you right click and inspect. If you’re on Firefox or View Source dive in and see how they do it, is it Flash, are they using HTML5, is maybe some JavaScript going on.

Brad: Yeah, I've actually done that quite a bit where you see a feature on a site and you're like I wonder how they do that, and then you right click and inspect. If you're on Firefox or View Source dive in and see how they do it, is it Flash, are they using HTML5, is maybe some JavaScript going on.

Patrick: Is it Front Page?

Brad: I hope not but if it is you may not want to learn from that, but yeah, look at how they’re doing it. Now just remember not everything you see may be done exactly how it should be, but it’s definitely going to help point you in the right direction of developing some of those things because there are some very popular sites out there that even viewing the source you can see they’re doing things incorrectly, not everyone’s perfect. Number seven, Hang Out at Some Programming Sites and Read Blogs; this is another good one, find sites —

Brad: I hope not but if it is you may not want to learn from that, but yeah, look at how they're doing it. Now just remember not everything you see may be done exactly how it should be, but it's definitely going to help point you in the right direction of developing some of those things because there are some very popular sites out there that even viewing the source you can see they're doing things incorrectly, not everyone's perfect. Number seven, Hang Out at Some Programming Sites and Read Blogs; this is another good one, find sites —

Patrick: Like SitePoint and SitePoint/forums.

Brad: Thanks, Patrick. It’s a great point, SitePoint has some awesome articles covering everything about web design, development, all sorts of stuff, API’s, new versions of software, everything, so stay in tune with sites that are kind of inline with what you do. They mentioned Stack Overflow is another one that a lot of programmers are using nowadays, that’s a great one to kind of read and follow and look at how people are doing code differently. Forums, Ralph you were talking about forums earlier, I mean I think we all agree that we’ve all learned a lot from the SitePoint Forums, that’s pretty much how I learned to program ten years ago was on SitePoint just in the forums asking. It’s actually fun to go through old forum posts and look at the problem that was presented and then eight or ten different revisions of the code until they get this perfect piece of code that went from 50 lines maybe down to like 10 and see the different ways that people are doing it until they get it to work as perfect as possible.

Brad: Thanks, Patrick. It's a great point, SitePoint has some awesome articles covering everything about web design, development, all sorts of stuff, API's, new versions of software, everything, so stay in tune with sites that are kind of inline with what you do. They mentioned Stack Overflow is another one that a lot of programmers are using nowadays, that's a great one to kind of read and follow and look at how people are doing code differently. Forums, Ralph you were talking about forums earlier, I mean I think we all agree that we've all learned a lot from the SitePoint Forums, that's pretty much how I learned to program ten years ago was on SitePoint just in the forums asking. It's actually fun to go through old forum posts and look at the problem that was presented and then eight or ten different revisions of the code until they get this perfect piece of code that went from 50 lines maybe down to like 10 and see the different ways that people are doing it until they get it to work as perfect as possible.

Ralph: And that’s a great thing because there are so many people who really know their craft well, and so the opportunity to be able to run it past other people is a really great guarantee that you’re not putting bad code online because people just won’t let you get away with it in the forums.

Ralph: And that's a great thing because there are so many people who really know their craft well, and so the opportunity to be able to run it past other people is a really great guarantee that you're not putting bad code online because people just won't let you get away with it in the forums.

Brad: Yeah, and it’s a great resource, so once you learn something bookmark it if you know you’re going to go back to it. And that actually goes into number eight which is Writing about Code. This is one I do; I don’t do it as often as I should.

Brad: Yeah, and it's a great resource, so once you learn something bookmark it if you know you're going to go back to it. And that actually goes into number eight which is Writing about Code. This is one I do; I don't do it as often as I should.

Patrick: This one there’s a hefty advance with it.

Patrick: This one there's a hefty advance with it.

Brad: Yeah, well I try to write on my blog, and basically the same blog about code; write tutorials, when you learn things put them somewhere, put them on a blog, put them on a website somewhere, share them. And I actually do that quite a bit; when I stumble across something that maybe took me longer to figure out than I expected or something I had no idea how to do that I know I’m going to need some other time, the way I archive my code is I write a blog post about it. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gone back to blog posts that I’ve written to get the code because I knew I’ll forget where the code’s at, but I’ll remember, hey, I wrote a blog post about that. I’ve actually been surfing Google for a problem, come across a post I wrote a year or two ago that answers the problem and I realize, hey, I had it in front of me the whole time and forgot about it. So, yeah, blog about it, write about it, that’s another way. I’ve posted code before and somebody in the comments pointed out a more efficient way to do it, so right there I just learned something.

Brad: Yeah, well I try to write on my blog, and basically the same blog about code; write tutorials, when you learn things put them somewhere, put them on a blog, put them on a website somewhere, share them. And I actually do that quite a bit; when I stumble across something that maybe took me longer to figure out than I expected or something I had no idea how to do that I know I'm going to need some other time, the way I archive my code is I write a blog post about it. And I can't tell you how many times I've gone back to blog posts that I've written to get the code because I knew I'll forget where the code's at, but I'll remember, hey, I wrote a blog post about that. I've actually been surfing Google for a problem, come across a post I wrote a year or two ago that answers the problem and I realize, hey, I had it in front of me the whole time and forgot about it. So, yeah, blog about it, write about it, that's another way. I've posted code before and somebody in the comments pointed out a more efficient way to do it, so right there I just learned something.

Patrick: Yeah, I know this might sound a little egotistical to some people, but I’ve actually referred back to my book sometimes where it’s funny because when you write about something, especially in book form, it’s like there’s an index in there as well, like someone actually went through the book and indexed your brain, and then you go and you go like, well, let’s see, I’m looking at this and refer back to it sometimes because I mean these are my thoughts and I’ve covered this before so I’m looking back at it, and it’s funny when you have to refer back to your own writing. But, hey, that makes sense, I mean it sounds stupid but it actually makes a lot of sense I think.

Patrick: Yeah, I know this might sound a little egotistical to some people, but I've actually referred back to my book sometimes where it's funny because when you write about something, especially in book form, it's like there's an index in there as well, like someone actually went through the book and indexed your brain, and then you go and you go like, well, let's see, I'm looking at this and refer back to it sometimes because I mean these are my thoughts and I've covered this before so I'm looking back at it, and it's funny when you have to refer back to your own writing. But, hey, that makes sense, I mean it sounds stupid but it actually makes a lot of sense I think.

Brad: Absolutely.

布拉德：绝对。

Ralph: I’m glad you say that, too, because I always get embarrassed that I can’t remember, geez, I’ve known people who never forget anything, like my dad actually who’s brilliant like that, and I just find the moment it’s out of sight it’s out of mind, and so I’m glad I’m not the only one.

Ralph: I'm glad you say that, too, because I always get embarrassed that I can't remember, geez, I've known people who never forget anything, like my dad actually who's brilliant like that, and I just find the moment it's out of sight it's out of mind, and so I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Patrick: Well, if you think about it, why do we write things down? Like looking past Internet and books, why do we write things down to begin with? Well, we write things down so they live past us so we can pass them down, and we write them down so we can remember. And that’s the same case, it doesn’t change just because we have a blog now, we can’t remember everything, that’s the same reason we have to-do lists, we write it down so we can find it later. And the great thing about the Internet and a book even is that those thoughts are easily searchable and indexed rather than having to scan some sort of tablet or papyrus looking for what you wrote down.

Patrick: Well, if you think about it, why do we write things down? Like looking past Internet and books, why do we write things down to begin with? Well, we write things down so they live past us so we can pass them down, and we write them down so we can remember. And that's the same case, it doesn't change just because we have a blog now, we can't remember everything, that's the same reason we have to-do lists, we write it down so we can find it later. And the great thing about the Internet and a book even is that those thoughts are easily searchable and indexed rather than having to scan some sort of tablet or papyrus looking for what you wrote down.

Ralph: I wonder in time what will happen to archiving. I know some things are being done with that, but that’s my one worry that if your site goes down or you’ve lost all that stuff; do any of you archive your thoughts as well? I tend to keep a copy on the computer as well, which is not necessarily the best way to archive but it’s better than nothing.

Ralph: I wonder in time what will happen to archiving. I know some things are being done with that, but that's my one worry that if your site goes down or you've lost all that stuff; do any of you archive your thoughts as well? I tend to keep a copy on the computer as well, which is not necessarily the best way to archive but it's better than nothing.

Patrick: I have backups of my websites and my databases, so if I’m writing a blog obviously that goes into the database, and I have copies and multiple backups of that, that are updated regularly so, yeah, definitely important to back things up.

Patrick: I have backups of my websites and my databases, so if I'm writing a blog obviously that goes into the database, and I have copies and multiple backups of that, that are updated regularly so, yeah, definitely important to back things up.

Brad: Yeah, absolutely. Number nine, Learn a Low-Level Program, or Learn Low-Level Programming.

布拉德：是的，绝对。 Number nine, Learn a Low-Level Program, or Learn Low-Level Programming.

Patrick: This is my only hope.

Brad: This is a tricky one. This is one of those ones they’re basically saying check out C or maybe an assembly language or maybe like Compiler, learning how computers execute programs would in turn help you understand how programs work. It makes sense in theory, it’s just low-level programming period is tough, obviously there are a small number of people in the world that really excel at it, so if you want to dive into it feel free, it’s probably not something I’ll be doing anytime soon but have fun learning or reading about Assembly. And number ten, this is an interesting one that I’ll be we’re all guilty of, so let’s see, Don’t Rush to Stack Overflow and Don’t Rush to Google, Don’t Rush to a Forum, think about the problem.

Brad: This is a tricky one. This is one of those ones they're basically saying check out C or maybe an assembly language or maybe like Compiler, learning how computers execute programs would in turn help you understand how programs work. It makes sense in theory, it's just low-level programming period is tough, obviously there are a small number of people in the world that really excel at it, so if you want to dive into it feel free, it's probably not something I'll be doing anytime soon but have fun learning or reading about Assembly. And number ten, this is an interesting one that I'll be we're all guilty of, so let's see, Don't Rush to Stack Overflow and Don't Rush to Google, Don't Rush to a Forum, think about the problem.

Patrick: Don’t rush to SitePoint.

Patrick: Don't rush to SitePoint.

Brad: Don’t rush to SitePoint. Think about it. Rather than spending 30 seconds on a problem and immediately going to Google and searching it, really spend some time on it, think about what the problem is, what the end goal is and how you can get there; write it down if you have to, flow it out if you have to. I know in programming school they tell you to flow out everything, and I would probably say that most people agree that you don’t really have to do that as often as they would want you to think in the real world, maybe you should but most people don’t. But rather than run out there and just try to find the answer to all your problems it’s not as easy to learn that way, right? What do they say, give the man a fish and he’ll eat for a day, teach him to fish and he’ll eat for a lifetime.

Brad: Don't rush to SitePoint. 想一想。 Rather than spending 30 seconds on a problem and immediately going to Google and searching it, really spend some time on it, think about what the problem is, what the end goal is and how you can get there; write it down if you have to, flow it out if you have to. I know in programming school they tell you to flow out everything, and I would probably say that most people agree that you don't really have to do that as often as they would want you to think in the real world, maybe you should but most people don't. But rather than run out there and just try to find the answer to all your problems it's not as easy to learn that way, right? What do they say, give the man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach him to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime.

Patrick: Or just rush to SitePoint.

Brad: Or go to SitePoint and somebody will help you out (laughter). It’s good, I mean obviously you’re not going to spend a week on a problem you could just Google, but spend more than 30 seconds on it, really think about it; a lot of times it may come to you, and if not then go to SitePoint, then go to Stack Overflow, then go out there and try to find the problem. So that’s the top ten, it’s a great article, it’s actually written by a guy named Anders Ahlstrom, and believe it or not he’s 15, impressive; so we’ll make sure to have a link to that so everybody can go through it, there are a lot of good links within each tip on what he’s talking about so it’s pretty interesting to read. We’ll have that in the show notes.

Brad: Or go to SitePoint and somebody will help you out (laughter). It's good, I mean obviously you're not going to spend a week on a problem you could just Google, but spend more than 30 seconds on it, really think about it; a lot of times it may come to you, and if not then go to SitePoint, then go to Stack Overflow, then go out there and try to find the problem. So that's the top ten, it's a great article, it's actually written by a guy named Anders Ahlstrom, and believe it or not he's 15, impressive; so we'll make sure to have a link to that so everybody can go through it, there are a lot of good links within each tip on what he's talking about so it's pretty interesting to read. We'll have that in the show notes.

Ralph: And if that doesn’t convince you to get into programming — I was just reading a review of a book the other day called Program or Be Programmed, that’s the title of the website, Programorbeprogrammed, and reading the blurbs online it’s a pretty compelling read looking at how programmers are basically controlling our lives these days, and if we don’t learn how they work we’ll just be their slaves.

Ralph: And if that doesn't convince you to get into programming — I was just reading a review of a book the other day called Program or Be Programmed, that's the title of the website, Programorbeprogrammed , and reading the blurbs online it's a pretty compelling read looking at how programmers are basically controlling our lives these days, and if we don't learn how they work we'll just be their slaves.

Patrick: That’s our future, everyone, thanks for the uplifting note there.

Patrick: That's our future, everyone, thanks for the uplifting note there.

Brad: Glad I’m a programmer.

Brad: Glad I'm a programmer.

Ralph: (Laughter) Well, at least we’re the ones who’ll be in it. Douglas Rushkoff wrote that and it’s newly released, it looks like quite a good book worth checking out.

Ralph: (Laughter) Well, at least we're the ones who'll be in it. Douglas Rushkoff wrote that and it's newly released, it looks like quite a good book worth checking out.

Patrick: Cool. And our last story today is browser trends. The Statcounter global statistics have been updated to include the numbers for June of 2011, and so we have the latest breakdown on which browsers are losing ground and which browsers are gaining ground. You have an overall net loss for IE, it’s down by 29%, relative 70%, so that means it lost 70% of its market share, really a number that’s down 29%. Firefox lost .96% from 29.30 to 28.34% of overall global market share for web browsers. The gain, the big gainer, not a surprise I guess, is Google Chrome, up to 20.67% from 19.38%, it continues to gain and gain and gain. Within the IE subcategory IE 9 is a gainer, 1.61% up to 6.18% overall, IE 8 drops a fair amount, 1.39% to 27.67%. IE 6 some will delight to know is continuing to fall down another .12% to 3.72%, but that’s still 3.72% of the world using IE 6 unfortunately. Meanwhile, Safari sees a small gain and Opera sees a small loss, so it seems like a continuation of what’s been happening before, IE is dropping, Firefox is dropping and Chrome is gaining.

帕特里克：酷。 And our last story today is browser trends. The Statcounter global statistics have been updated to include the numbers for June of 2011, and so we have the latest breakdown on which browsers are losing ground and which browsers are gaining ground. You have an overall net loss for IE, it's down by 29%, relative 70%, so that means it lost 70% of its market share, really a number that's down 29%. Firefox lost .96% from 29.30 to 28.34% of overall global market share for web browsers. The gain, the big gainer, not a surprise I guess, is Google Chrome, up to 20.67% from 19.38%, it continues to gain and gain and gain. Within the IE subcategory IE 9 is a gainer, 1.61% up to 6.18% overall, IE 8 drops a fair amount, 1.39% to 27.67%. IE 6 some will delight to know is continuing to fall down another .12% to 3.72%, but that's still 3.72% of the world using IE 6 unfortunately. Meanwhile, Safari sees a small gain and Opera sees a small loss, so it seems like a continuation of what's been happening before, IE is dropping, Firefox is dropping and Chrome is gaining.

Brad: I like it. So it’s really only a matter of time until IE 7 is gone.

Brad: I like it. So it's really only a matter of time until IE 7 is gone.

Patrick: IE 7 or IE 6?

Brad: 7. I mean I think we can all say that IE 6 is pretty much done. I’ve realized that there’s still the corporate world that is going to hang onto it for dear life, but as far as websites and designers and developers supporting it, I think that it’s pretty much over, it’s end of life.

Brad: 7. I mean I think we can all say that IE 6 is pretty much done. I've realized that there's still the corporate world that is going to hang onto it for dear life, but as far as websites and designers and developers supporting it, I think that it's pretty much over, it's end of life.

Patrick: Yeah, IE 7 had 6% overall market share in June, IE 6 3.72, so IE 7 was down .39% so, yeah, they’re continuing to lose, and IE 8 has the lion’s share of the IE market share with 27.67% overall, so I guess that’s good news for developers.

Patrick: Yeah, IE 7 had 6% overall market share in June, IE 6 3.72, so IE 7 was down .39% so, yeah, they're continuing to lose, and IE 8 has the lion's share of the IE market share with 27.67% overall, so I guess that's good news for developers.

Ralph: I’ve started to see a lot of people switch to Chrome, just about everyone I know who works on the Web has switched, but I’m not, I still can’t leave Firebug behind; even though the Chrome developer tools are good they’re just not quite the same. Firebug just keeps adding a few new things that keep it just slightly ahead, but Chrome is a very nice browser I have to say.

Ralph: I've started to see a lot of people switch to Chrome, just about everyone I know who works on the Web has switched, but I'm not, I still can't leave Firebug behind; even though the Chrome developer tools are good they're just not quite the same. Firebug just keeps adding a few new things that keep it just slightly ahead, but Chrome is a very nice browser I have to say.

Patrick: Brad, Stephan, you guys still rocking Chrome?

Stephan: Yeah, it depends on what day it is (laughter).

Brad: Yeah, I’m a Chrome guy. I mean I feel the same as you, Ralph, on occasion I will have to fire up Firefox to get into Firebug, but I’ve really been pushing myself to use Chrome’s Inspector, and for the most part it works, I would say about 80, 90% of the time I get what I need.

Brad: Yeah, I'm a Chrome guy. I mean I feel the same as you, Ralph, on occasion I will have to fire up Firefox to get into Firebug, but I've really been pushing myself to use Chrome's Inspector, and for the most part it works, I would say about 80, 90% of the time I get what I need.

Ralph: It’s pretty good, but Firebug still has a few things like you can go straight into the style sheet and rather than have to edit each individual style things like that are just a little bit ahead. I tried to convert my mother to Chrome the other day, but we couldn’t import her bookmarks from Firefox, I didn’t know what was going on there, so maybe that’s just a Mac thing, I’m not sure, but it just didn’t quite work so she didn’t want to know about it in the end. But I think if you’re not doing web development Chrome is a very nice browser.

Ralph: It's pretty good, but Firebug still has a few things like you can go straight into the style sheet and rather than have to edit each individual style things like that are just a little bit ahead. I tried to convert my mother to Chrome the other day, but we couldn't import her bookmarks from Firefox, I didn't know what was going on there, so maybe that's just a Mac thing, I'm not sure, but it just didn't quite work so she didn't want to know about it in the end. But I think if you're not doing web development Chrome is a very nice browser.

Patrick: Alright, so it’s time for our host spotlights! Ralph, since you’re our honored guest why don’t you go first.

Patrick: Alright, so it's time for our host spotlights! Ralph, since you're our honored guest why don't you go first.

Ralph: Well, one thing I’ve been looking at lately, and I must admit I haven’t gone into it deeply yet, but it’s — we know about the HMTL5 boilerplate and here there’s a website now that has an HTML email boilerplate, and it’s by Sean Powell and it’s quite a pretty website, it’s htmlemailboilerplate. And obviously HTML email is a tricky beast to get under control, and there’s a nice article about that in the community book, and there are other books that have been published, and each time I stumble across something on HTML email I learn a few more tips, and this boilerplate has a basic template that you can use that has a lot of comments in it that are helpful for explaining it as well. But it goes into really fine-grained details about little quirks with different email clients and shows you, breaks down specific styles for all of those so that you actually understand what they’re for, so it looks like a really useful resource this one.

Ralph: Well, one thing I've been looking at lately, and I must admit I haven't gone into it deeply yet, but it's — we know about the HMTL5 boilerplate and here there's a website now that has an HTML email boilerplate, and it's by Sean Powell and it's quite a pretty website, it's htmlemailboilerplate . And obviously HTML email is a tricky beast to get under control, and there's a nice article about that in the community book, and there are other books that have been published, and each time I stumble across something on HTML email I learn a few more tips, and this boilerplate has a basic template that you can use that has a lot of comments in it that are helpful for explaining it as well. But it goes into really fine-grained details about little quirks with different email clients and shows you, breaks down specific styles for all of those so that you actually understand what they're for, so it looks like a really useful resource this one.

Patrick: Excellent, especially for anyone who’s regularly sending out those email newsletters.

Patrick: Excellent, especially for anyone who's regularly sending out those email newsletters.

Ralph: Absolutely, yeah, this would really give you a lot of control for some of the major clients like Yahoo and Gmail and the rest, very clear, and looking at some of the quirks of those and how to get around them, so it’s one of the best summaries I’ve seen, so it’s certainly worth a look.

Ralph: Absolutely, yeah, this would really give you a lot of control for some of the major clients like Yahoo and Gmail and the rest, very clear, and looking at some of the quirks of those and how to get around them, so it's one of the best summaries I've seen, so it's certainly worth a look.

Patrick: And, Stephan, why don’t you go next.

Patrick: And, Stephan, why don't you go next.

Stephan: So my spotlight is for all the programmers out there it actually kind of fits into that topic we were talking about earlier. It’s the 9/11 Memorial and how they were able to design it to fit the names and how they used a bunch of different algorithms to make it all fit, because the way it’s being done is that the names are going to be placed in an order where they’re in a geographic region of who they were close to when they passed away and when they died on 9/11. And so there are a bunch of different algorithms they used to get this data into a usable format, and it’s just an interesting read, it’s got a lot of neat graphics and a little short video attached to it and how they designed it and everything, it’s really cool. They used processing which is a nice little engine for visualizing data, so it’s just a good read, something that I found really interesting.

Stephan: So my spotlight is for all the programmers out there it actually kind of fits into that topic we were talking about earlier. It's the 9/11 Memorial and how they were able to design it to fit the names and how they used a bunch of different algorithms to make it all fit, because the way it's being done is that the names are going to be placed in an order where they're in a geographic region of who they were close to when they passed away and when they died on 9/11. And so there are a bunch of different algorithms they used to get this data into a usable format, and it's just an interesting read, it's got a lot of neat graphics and a little short video attached to it and how they designed it and everything, it's really cool. They used processing which is a nice little engine for visualizing data, so it's just a good read, something that I found really interesting.

Patrick: Yeah, seems like a cool read. It starts with, “In late October 2009 I received an email from Jake Barton from Local Projects titled plainly, ‘Potential Freelance Job’. I read the email and responded with a reply in two parts, first I would love to work on the project, second, I wasn’t sure that it could be done.”

Patrick: Yeah, seems like a cool read. It starts with, “In late October 2009 I received an email from Jake Barton from Local Projects titled plainly, 'Potential Freelance Job'. I read the email and responded with a reply in two parts, first I would love to work on the project, second, I wasn't sure that it could be done.”

Brad: Bom, bom, bom! (for dramatic effect).

Patrick: That’s a cool story. Brad, what do you have?

Patrick: That's a cool story. Brad, what do you have?

Brad: Mine is the obvious one, WordPress 3.2 is out, it was released on July 4, I knew you expected it; released July 4th on Independence Day here in the U.S., and is a great way to release some software. So we spoke about it the last roundtable show, we have the refresh dashboard, the 2011 theme, distraction free writing, we also dropped support for PHP 4 which is great, and IE 6, which is also great.

Brad: Mine is the obvious one, WordPress 3.2 is out, it was released on July 4, I knew you expected it; released July 4th on Independence Day here in the US, and is a great way to release some software. So we spoke about it the last roundtable show, we have the refresh dashboard, the 2011 theme, distraction free writing, we also dropped support for PHP 4 which is great, and IE 6, which is also great.

Patrick: Great for who exactly? No, I’m just kidding.

Patrick: Great for who exactly? 不，我只是在开玩笑。

Brad: Great for devs and designers. But we’ll have the link in the show notes, but you can certainly go out there and download, and if you’re running WordPress you can use a simple autoupdate to update your site to the new version.

Brad: Great for devs and designers. But we'll have the link in the show notes, but you can certainly go out there and download, and if you're running WordPress you can use a simple autoupdate to update your site to the new version.

Patrick: Excellent. And my spotlight is a music video. It is the music video for We’ll Kill You by The Lonely Island. You know I love The Lonely Island, as you can judge from my previous spotlights, this video was included with the DVD for their new album Turtleneck and Shane which was released a little while back, and it’s just I find it hilarious, and there is some vulgarity in there, there’s some inappropriate content, so bear that in mind, you’ve been warned, I just find it really funny. So definitely check that out and feel free to lament my off-topic choice in the comments. So, Ralph, where can people find you on the Web?

帕特里克：太好了。 And my spotlight is a music video. It is the music video for We'll Kill You by The Lonely Island. You know I love The Lonely Island, as you can judge from my previous spotlights, this video was included with the DVD for their new album Turtleneck and Shane which was released a little while back, and it's just I find it hilarious, and there is some vulgarity in there, there's some inappropriate content, so bear that in mind, you've been warned, I just find it really funny. So definitely check that out and feel free to lament my off-topic choice in the comments. So, Ralph, where can people find you on the Web?

Ralph: I have my own website, pageaffairs, it needs a bit of updating I must admit, but also I Tweet occasionally at @pageaffairs, so pretty simple to remember.

Ralph: I have my own website, pageaffairs , it needs a bit of updating I must admit, but also I Tweet occasionally at @pageaffairs , so pretty simple to remember.

Patrick: Excellent. So, following Ralph let’s go ahead and make our normal around the table, Brad?

帕特里克：太好了。 So, following Ralph let's go ahead and make our normal around the table, Brad?

Brad: I’m Brad Williams, Webdevstudios and you can track me down on Twitter @williamsba.

Brad: I'm Brad Williams, Webdevstudios and you can track me down on Twitter @williamsba .

Stephan: I’m Stephan Segraves; you can find me at Badice and on Twitter @ssegraves.

Stephan: I'm Stephan Segraves; you can find me at Badice and on Twitter @ssegraves .

Patrick: And I am Patrick O’Keefe of the iFroggy Network, I blog at Managingcommunities, you can follow me on Twitter @ifroggy, i-f-r-o-g-g-y. You can follow our usual co-host, Louis Simoneau, @rssaddict, and you can follow SitePoint @sitepointdotcom, that’s SitePoint d-o-t-c-o-m. Visit us at Sitepoint/podcast to leave comments on this show and to subscribe to receive every show automatically. Email podcast@sitepoint with your questions for us, we’d love to read them out on the show and give you our advice. The SitePoint Podcast is produced by Karn Broad. Thank you for listening and we’ll see you next week.

Patrick: And I am Patrick O'Keefe of the iFroggy Network, I blog at Managingcommunities , you can follow me on Twitter @ifroggy , ifroggy. You can follow our usual co-host, Louis Simoneau, @rssaddict , and you can follow SitePoint @sitepointdotcom , that's SitePoint dotcom. Visit us at Sitepoint/podcast to leave comments on this show and to subscribe to receive every show automatically. 给我们发送您的问题的电子邮件至podcast@sitepoint ，我们很乐意在节目中朗读它们并为您提供建议。 The SitePoint Podcast is produced by Karn Broad. 感谢您的收听，下周见。

Theme music by Mike Mella.

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